Douglas Murray and the American Right's Growing Divides

Why a key episode of Joe Rogan's podcast suggests an even more polarized future is ahead.

Tension so thick you could cut a knife through it.

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A UFC commentator, a comedian, and a war correspondent walk into a studio. It sounds like the setup to some joke with an esoteric punchline — but no, it’s just your average episode of The Joe Rogan Experience. My non-podcast listening, non-political junkie readers may be confused, but bear with me for a moment. I’ve discussed in previous columns just how important Joe Rogan’s podcast has become for American discourse. He’s spoken to everyone from Robert Downey Jr. to Edward Snowden.

With over 14.5 million followers on Spotify, it really cannot be overstated: Rogan is a big deal, and the guests he invites help shape the viewpoints of a vast number of people. His podcast with Donald Trump arguably played at least some last-minute role in the man returning to the White House. Yet to quote Uncle Ben, “With great power comes great responsibility.” In recent years, The Joe Rogan Experience has faced significant criticism for promoting conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and misinformation.

Joe Rogan in a nutshell, though this meme was from a time when his podcast was taken far less seriously than it is now.

Some of this is overblown by mainstream media outlets who feel their influence is being threatened. But other moments — such as Australian radio presenter Josh Szeps making Rogan look foolish on camera about vaccines — highlight the limitations of the podcast. On topics like U.S. foreign policy and history, Rogan and some of his guests have repeated demonstrably false claims. Ukrainians have accused the show of pushing pro-Kremlin talking points, and recent controversy centered around Rogan inviting on Darryl Cooper — a podcaster with no real qualifications who engages in blatant historical revisionism, including downplaying Hitler’s public antisemitism and calling Winston Churchill “the chief villain of World War II.”

This long introduction is necessarily to contextualize an important episode of The Joe Rogan Experience posted last week. Over three hours of heated discussion, British journalist Douglas Murray and American comedian Dave Smith traded blows over the legitimacy of figures like Cooper, U.S. aid to Ukraine, and Israel’s war with Hamas. Their extreme disagreements reflect deepening fractures within the American political right — and suggest a stormy future is ahead.

Things were quite heated to say the least. Rogan often seemed at a loss for words as Smith and Murray duked it out.